I Don’t Think They Know The Time

Y’all already know what it is.

Before we get back on our grizzy, I gotta take a minute to show some love to some’a the ladies out there that kept our troops company while they got down n’ dirty over there. Shit’s good for morale, B.

Veronica Lake

Hazel Brooks

Peggy Corday

..an’ I got a good gat.

Now, I done been tryin’a figure out how’ta bring up today’s topic for a minute now. I been sittin’ on it for a grip, but after the first couple’a posts I couldn’t figure out how’ta let y’all nerd know this next one was out there. ‘Cause, yo, this one’s finna shake the very foundations we been tryin’ so hard to lay down. But yo, I got faith in y’all nerds.

So yo.

Here we go, Son. I gots two pieces to speak on today. Y’all know we pretty much been dealin’ strictly with A-11 Navigators up in here, so unless I done been misinformed (totally possible, no doubt), these two little aliens is the only ones we ain’t been over.

But yo, I gotta say, of all the joints we done discussed, these are the ones I know the littlest about, so take it easy on a nerd here if I get it twisted. They’s probably the rarest, most ‘spensive A-11s you could find, too. So if you lookin’ for somethin’ to wow them boys over there at the VFW, this baby here might be the one.

Now, before we get right down to it, I gotta site this again. ‘Cause we gonna be dealin’ with two different specs here: 27834 and 94-27834. Do remember!  We dealt with one’a these before – the white face elgin joint fell under the 94-27834, right? That jump was from the ’41. So peep the math, B. First one we gonna bless is this older kid from the ’4 dot 0. Don’t get too souped, Nerd.

Longines-Wittnauer Watch Co. Inc. New York

US Army Air Corps Longines Weems Type A-11 (non-hacking)

Mfr’s Assy. Dwg. No. 1068, 15 Jewel, Grade 10L, Keystone Case Co. 

Sheeit, Son. What I’ma do when I get my hands on one’a these? Wild out, that’s what. But before then, check it out. Ey’thang up there look pretty similar, ‘sept the dials, right? Same bezel, same crowns, and hands. So we got a lil’ mystery here. Which one’s right? Besides the obvious branding, peep right above the ’12′. The bottom one is missing the red line.. And, yo, if you ask me, the colors’a the three concentric circles are reversed on each’a these. On the non-branded one, the center circle is dark with a light ring surroundin’ it. On the branded one its the opposite; light center circle with dark ring ’round it. An’ on each piece the railroad tracks seem to match the innermost circle. So again, reversed.

One thing we obviously gotta discuss is the extra crown we dealin’ with up there at the ’2′. What we’s dealin’ with here is called a ‘locking crown’. This directly relates to why this joint is described as ‘non-hacking’. Hacking watches, by definition, are watches that can be stopped by pulling out the ‘winding crown’ (the one at ’3′). With this joint that ain’t gonna work. Y’all dudes need to be easy before you go tryin’a pull this winding crown out. So how is this a navigation watch, you might ask. This how, Nerd. Peep the rotating ‘weems‘ bezel. The top joint has it’s set in its starting position, but the bottom one shows that the bezel can be rotated. So back to the locking crown. When you want to rotate the bezel, loosen the crown, rotate that shit, and lock it back up. Basically what you’re doin’ here is marking where your second hand is at. Make sense? Yeah, I feels ya, I’m kinda baffled myself. Word, though.

Oh, one more thing. Notice it says ‘Swiss’ on the dial at the ’6′ position. Yeah, we gonna get to that one in a bit.

Caseback

My dudes, tell me that ain’t dope. That’s what I thought.

There’s a grip’a info on this here piece. ‘Specially since we ain’t dealin’ with a big watch. So here we go.

1. Spec No. 27834. We know that this means this was one of the first Type A-11 issued, way back in 1940. Which you can also tell by the serial number up there: 40-326. So this pre-dates the US involvement in WWII, and even the lend-lease program we talked about way back when. We might’a been stayin’ outta the war for a piece, but that don’t mean we was gonna get caught slippin’ if we needed to jump in. Word. Quick note about this spec – its ghost. Ain’t nobody out there got that shit, B. If you was hopin’ I’d copped it, my apologies, homie, I ain’t found nerthin’. I’ll holla if I do, though. Far as I know them Jedi dudes ain’t even got a copy’a this joint.

2. Mfg. Assy. Dwg. No. 1068. This one’s got me stressed. I mean, the first part is obviously just another way of saying manufacturers part number, but I ain’t been able to figure out the ‘Dwg.’ part. Here’re what I’m mullin’ over:

-Manufacturers Assembly Device Working Group Number

-Manufacturers Assembly Design Working Group Number

-Manufacturers Assembly Drawing Number

Which one’a these you think? I’ma have to lean towards ‘drawing number’. Them other joints is too long, you get me? Drawing sounds dope, too, so I’ma go with that.

Now for the ’1068′. This one relates to the size’a the movement. I think. But yo, for real? I’m dumb confused right now. An belee me, I done got used’ta gettin’ confused a long time ago, so this here’s somethin’ different. Shit’s bogglin’ my mind right now. So bear with me, Dun.

in 1939, Longines made a movement called the caliber 10.68 N. Now, the movement we dealin’ with is marked 10L, not 10.68 N. So I was steady confused as hell. Then I found this little thing floating around the interwebs somewhere:

Here’s a photo of the one we’re working with:

Longines Grade 10L, 15 Jewel, Non-hacking Movement  

Seems like the 10L is the same size as the 10.68N, which could explain why they marked the Mfg. Assy. Dwg. No. as 1068. But these is all speculations garnered from others’ speculations, so please, take ‘em with a grain’a salt, B. Here’s something I know for a fact – that U.S. Army A.C. engraving on the bridge is dope. Straight fiya. Onto the next.

3. ‘AC 263′  inside triangle engraving:

Word, Nerd. If you can’t see it, get yo’ spectacles on, B. ‘Cause that’s about as good as I can get it. The kid’s photoshops skills only go so far, aight? This here’s one’a them deep, dark mysteries: ‘AC 263′. So yo. First question is: are all ‘Longines Weems’ A-11(s) engraved with these same markings? Now we have a couple different examples, but all the photos make it tough. You decide.

If I had to guess, I’d have’ta say yeah, all these gots the same ’263′ markings. Each one’a these jumps has a different serial number right below the triangle, so you know they ain’t just one watch over n’ over. N’ yo, what’re the chances that the only four pictures of the case back that your boy can find on the whole internet- the biggest source of information ever compiled- are so damn similar? Nah, B, I’ma bet these engravings is all the same. But that leads us down another hole, yo. What’s ’263′? I ain’t got no answers, B. But as usual, Nerds, I gots opinions. I think these markings are what’re called Acceptance Markings. Now, I ain’t got no idea what the ’263′ refers to, but it looks to me that these markings were done after the rest of the engravings on the caseback. Which leads me to believe they’re Acceptance Markings. Before any’a these ladies got out there on the arm, they went through crazy tests to make sure they were up to the tasks out there. For example, see Sec. F of 94-27834-B:

Basically they threw them shits against a wall to see how they’d do. The ones that passed were given ‘acceptance marks’, which is what I think we’ve got here. The jury’s still out on the ’263′, but hey, we gettin’ somewheres.

Aight, before we go any further into this one, I want to get into a bit about this company here: Longines-Wittnauer. So yo. Longines is a Swiss company that worked in collaboration with its US sales agent, Wittnauer, on these A-11s. The movements, dials, and hands were all Swiss-made by Longines. These were then shipped to Wittnauer in the US and cased by Keystone Case Company. Check out the inside case back markings:

From what I hear in the streets, the man was hittin’ dudes with heavy taxes for importin’ complete watches back then, but if you just imported the uncased movements, you could get ‘em in cheap. So in order to keep Longines watches competitively priced, these ladies came over as parts and got cased in the US, by Keystone. Dudes at the time thought the Swiss were still making better quality movements, so yo, they had to do them. If you could copp a better quality watch at the same price, wouldn’t you? Aight then.

So as y’all can tell, these were some bad little ladies. And the weems bezel is so sick, that I think it deserves a bit more attention here. ‘Cause your boy, P.V.H. Weems was a pretty important homie. The kid was even nicknamed ‘The Grand Old Man of Navigation’. Without your boy’s hard work, we might not’a had these hacking watches we been talkin’ ’bout here. And as y’all already know, the navigation watches were a pretty important part of the US war effort. So respect to that man. Boom.

So yo, I know I said I’d be speakin’ on two’a these joints, but I’ma have’ta keep the second one under wraps for now. Its been a minute an’ you know I gots to feed the streets. Hood’s starvin’ out here. Do remember.

Water.

That White Girl

What it do, Kiko?

Aight so yo,before we get it crackin’ today, I need to take a quick timeout to give a big up to my main man, A-Town, over there at Form Follows Function aka FFF aka your favorite blogger’s favorite blog. The kid kills it on all levels. Word up, G. BAMN. NRDGNG.

Form Follows Function

So yo, we gonna get right back on our grind here. We been diggin’ some serious dirt on the US Navy version of our little lady, the Type A-11 Navigation Watch. We been checkin’ all of ‘em out – the Waltham, the Elgin, and the Hamiltons. And they all dope, for their own reasons, right? But right ’bout now we gonna take a step back n’ address somethin’ I been meanin’ to hit you off with. Now don’t get it twisted, I definitely get down with all black ey’thing, ey’day, but yo, I ain’t mad at this little white girl, neither. You ask me, there ain’t none better. That’s my word. Yeah, yeah, there’re dumb amounts of rarer jumps, more expensive shits, but yo, this is my girl, Son.

Elgin Type A-11, US Army Air Corps, Pt. No. 1768, Spec No. 94-27834,

Grade 539, 15 (True 16) Jewel, Sz. 8/0, Star Watch Case Co.

Crunchy chump crabs n’ all that. Word. Right now I know you all still sittin’ there tryin’a put your eyes back in they sockets, but yo, dead that and pay attention.

The first thing you’ll notice – if you anything like a nerd like me – is the white face. Now before you dumb out n’ try to get all brolic, sitin’ specs n’ shit on me, lemme explain a couple’a things about this here. I put up a few examples for y’all so we can discuss any discrepancies we might happen across. First thing first – check the date and the spec. no. You’ll see that all the ladies up there are from ’41. And if I’m ain’t mistaken, up ’till now we been dealin’ with pieces from anywhere between ’43-’45. So right here we lookin’ at an older version. And yo, the spec we see up there is missing the “-B” at the end.. Which means, what? We definitely lookin’ at an elderly lady here. Remember this?

Prolly not, but whatever. So this here spec is obviously 94-27834 which dates from ’41. Now if you actually clicked that link, Son, you’d maybe understood how deep this thing goes. Shit’s like archeology, Dun. Straight tryin’a dig up Dinosaurs bones n’ shit.

Word up, Son. Keep ya eyes open.

We obviously gots some key differences between the joints that fall under the 94-27834-B spec and the one under 94-27834 to discuss here.

1. White vs. Black dial. For me the red numerals at the ten second intervals make this dial so interesting. And aesthetically they just make the whole deal pop off. I mean, don’t get me wrong, black/white is clean n’ classic and you can’t never go wrong, but a little touch of color never hurt nerthin’.

2. Blue steel hands. Aight so yo, I ain’t even positive on which of the hands I have pictured here are the correct ones for this version. I seen both the black steel and the blue steel, and to be honest I think they’s both straight. But for me the blued hands put this whole deal on smash. I mean, as a color combo, the white/black with the red/blue accents is sick. Be like, blue n’ cream. Word up, God, I’ma rock nerds this summer.

3. Peep the crown:

I got some doubts about this one. As you can prolly tell, there could be questions about whether these two crown pictured are actually the same. Now it is totally possible that the top one is just worn down from crazy use, but it looks kinda strange to me. What I suspect is that they’s both straight. See how the case backs are different? My guess is that these two Star cases are different versions released in the same year. Possibly different order numbers. Most likely the one without the spec number on it would be the older joint. What we really wantin’ to be discussin’ is the differences between these and the ones below.

Elgin Type A-11 Star Case Company spec 94-27834-B

Close up crown view

So unless you been sippin’ too much of that promethazine, you can prolly tell that the shit’s been switched up on us. The crown on the one from ’41 resembles the crown of a pocket watch, if you ask me. Maybe it was changed to this beefier version for durability reason? Not too sure, all’s I know is that I don’t have any them older joints, so if you got some, get at me.

Somethin’ just struck me. It looks like all the USAAC Type A-11(s) are cased in Star Cases. I ain’t never come across a Keystone joint. All the cases I’ve got are made by Star. Later on we gonna get a bit into the subtle differences in the cases.

Elgin US Army Air Corp, Type A-11, Three Piece Coin Edged Star Case,

Pt. No. 1768, Spec No. 94-27834

I know, I know, I’m off track, again. So while I’m off track, lemme just take a quick second to give a shout out to this dude, the hardest dude you never met.

Unknown 82nd Airborne BAMF

82nd Airborne Ranger Should Patch

Aight so number 3 took a while.. hope y’all nerds is takin’ yer ginseng or some shit. Since it took a year’an a day to get here I’ma have to post this movement pic again.

4. Grade 539? Now I know all y’all are like – that ain’t no 539, B, that’s some other shit. But yo, believe me, that’s the same one. I think. There’s always a chance that I’m totally burnt, but yo, as far as I can tell, this is actually the same joint. Check how it says ’15 Jewel’. For some reason this says it has 15, but I’m told that this is actually a 16 Jewel, hacking joint. Aight so. What I think we’ve got here is a prototype of the 539. Now this is total speculation, and please, let a nerd know if he’s way off. I think what we have here is the older, 15 Jewel non-hacking 532 movement with an extra jewel added to make that shit hack. Could be that these movements were actually just revised 532(s), not a new production run of 539(s).? They may have had a backstock of 532(s) because they were already in use on another watch, and for the first runs of A-11s (the ones above), they just updated the movements they had in stock.

Elgin Grade 532, Size 8/0, 15 Jewel Non-hacking Movement

You know what this is, right? Another damn problem. We go nothin’ but problems ’round here recently. This here Grade 532 was only used in one watch, far as I can tell. That one watch? Boom.

Elgin USMC Center Seconds, Pt. No. ?, Grade 532, 15 Jewel Non-hacking,

Size 8/0,Two-piece Keystone Case

I be the king of the tangent, God. Here we go talkin’ about one thing and I get all sidetracked n’ shit. But yo, that’s just the way I’ma do things here. Gonzo-blog stee, ya dig? That’s for those who know.

Right now we gettin’ into some real rare territory here. I been over n’ over the whole in-a-net, and it seems like there’s like 2′a’3′a these jumps floatin’ around. For sure there’s more’n that, but thats about how many heads actually took the time to post them beauties. Peace to them dudes. But like I said before, most heads in the game is chump crabs.

So check it. We got yet another white girl, here. An’ if you been grindin’, you know that’s because the USMC was issued white joints, never black. Never that. But oh, you might be like – that A-11 up top ain’t no USMC issue – and you’d be right there, B, you would. But check it. Remember, that joint ain’t under spec 94-27834-B, its under a previous one; 94-27834. And apparently, under that spec, they didn’t call for a black dial, but a white one.. So. You probably ain’t gonna see no black faced 94-23478(s). Unless they done been re-dialed. For whatever reason, when they updated the specs, they changed the color. No idea why. Easier to read? And some’a you might be wonderin’ about the mysterious 94-23478-A.. And yo, I am too. We ain’t even gonna go there, ’cause yo, I don’t know nerthin’ about them. I ain’t never seen one. Shit’s like the boogyman or some shit. Not even sure they exist. But again, what do I know?

So there we have it, the US Army Air Corp A-11. I gots me a soft spot for this one. But up ’till now some’a the pieces done eluded me. So, for real, if you one’a them dudes out there squirrelin’ like ten’a them shits away in some dusty drawer, run your pockets, fool. Hit a nerd off. Get at me.

Water.

The Come Up

Peace. Just a quick one, my dudes. Just received this little come-up in the post today. Some gremlins, some dimes, as usual. Anyway, here’s today’s mathematics. Uno.

Quick Sneak Peek

I found the elusive ‘W’ marked Hamilton Case. Or part of it anyway.. 

Aight, Dunns. Movement huntin’ the next month or so. Hit a nerd if you got ‘em for cheap.

Water.

Russian Roulette

I ain’t gonna lie, my dudes, I’m tryin’a close out this topic on the BuAero 88-W-800, I am. But yo, I can’t just let these next two slip through the cracks. You get me? Then what? Then we’s like every other jump that just ain’t tellin’ the whole truth an’ nothin’ but the truth. Word. So yo, please excuse the repetitiveness of this post, but I gotta hit ‘em all.

Peace. Here go the next interesting BuAero 880-W-800(s). But yo, I ain’t gonna take too much’a y’alls time with these. I just wanna make sure y’all are aware that they out there. We out chea, too. Do remember. Aight. Remember I mentioned a Waltham 88-W-800 that was marked AERO 88-W-800? Well, here’s some pictures of that joint.

Waltham BuAero 88-W-800, US Navy, Pt. No. 10616, Grade 6/0 ’42, 16 Jewel 

Now, you might be askin’ yo’self, what’s the difference between this right here and the other Waltham “FSSC 88-W-800″? Same part numbers, same dial, same Keystone case.. but different markings? So yo, I got no answers for y’all. Alls I know is that both Walthams were issued to the US Navy only. Unlike the Hamiltons that were issued to both the USMC and the US Navy. Far as I can tell, only Hamilton issued BuAero 88-W-800(s) to the USMC. Aight, y’all ready for this next craze? Probably not. Quick disclaimer: this shit is unconfirmed. Totally unconfirmed. You’ll see why..

Hamilton BuAero Sub-Second 88-W-800 (?), Russian Government, Pt. No. 27016 (?), Grade 987A, 17 Jewel, Size 6/0, Keystone Case

Do what? Yeah, that’s right, Russian. So check it out. How the hell did we end up with Russian 88-W-800(s)? Here’s how. Your boy, Frank, aka Young Crazy Legs, aka your Favorite President’s Favorite President aka FDR was in a tight spot. It was back in ’41 and shit was poppin’ off kinda fierce across the pond. The kid Adolph was goin’ hard in the paint, and was pretty much pushin’ every other crew off their corners. Basically the only kid left on the block was Brittan. And then there was the big ol’ Soviet Union. But, do remember! The US had laws back then against hittin’ off other nations with loot if they were engaged in a conflict. They also weren’t allowed to give out loans to ‘belligerent’ heads. And seeing how Brittan was basically broke, Frankie had to get creative. What he came up with was called the Lend-Lease Act. Now for all y’all lazy fools out there who don’t be clickin’ though links, this was an act that basically ended a US foreign policy that had been in place since the end of WWI – non-interventionism. Now if you know anything, you realize how big this is. Because since then, the US ain’t looked back, God. They been up in more than their share of other people’s wars since then. But yo, this ain’t no political blog. Back to the hood again, all black hood again.

So yo, right here we have something similar to the last one we talked about in the previous post. We got a sub-second, non-hacking joint. Which we decided was most likely not used for navigation, seein’ as one of the necessary functions of a navi watch is the ability to be synchronized.

Lemme take a second to address the caseback markings. If you ain’t fluent in Russian, like I am, here’s what it says:

Геройскому

народу СССР

Рошен Уор Релиф

США

“To the heroic people of the USSR Russian War Relief USA”

So you can see, no part numbers, no 88-W-800 markings, no company name.. no nerthin’. So the idea that this is, in fact, a “88-W-800″ is not yet proven, if you ask me. I’ve come across some speculation that it was indeed issued under that specification, but I’m not so sure. Yeah, we have the same movement, the 987A, we have the same type of dial (although a different color), same hands, same case.. But, how can we be sure its a Navy issue? It could also be one of these, which I think is more likely, and I’ll explain why:

Hamilton Ordnance Department ‘OD’ Sub-Second, US Army, Pt. No. 27014, Grade 987A, 17 Jewels, Size 6/0, Keystone Case Company (Non-waterproof)

Hamilton Ordnance Department ‘OF’ Sub-Second, US Army, Pt. No. 27014, Grade 987A, 17 Jewels, Size 6/0, Keystone Case Company (Waterproof)

Golden Arms, maintain the fort! Piece be lookin’ real familiar, yo. An’yo, if anybody out there wanna tell me that Russian joint ain’t what we got right here, get at me. Here’s todays mathematics, God, knowledge born. We ain’t been introduced to the boy above, but he’s a pretty important dude. We been focusin’ on the elite guards n’ shit, but yo, your everyday Joe gotta get his shine, too. That’s where these boys came in. These joints were issued to the US Army infantry. Straight Joes. Lets go to the tape.

Right up here we got all the different ordnance markings you might find on the back of your new favorite strap. The two we dealin’ with at the moment are ‘OD’ and ‘OF’. As you can tell, there’s only one difference here – one’s ‘waterproof’ and one ain’t. Now, when we’re talking about ‘waterproof’,  you might not wanna test the boy, after 60 some-odd years, but at one point, that was the jam.

Now, right now ain’t the time to dive into the Ord Watches, we gonna get into that at a later date. What we’re tryin’ to do right now is formulate a theory about what that Russian joint was.

As far as I can tell, there ain’t a single difference in the two watches above and the Russian one we’re dealin’ with. The thought that this could be any type of 88-W-800 would mean that this would have to have a black face, right? Every 88-W-800 was a Navy issue, and every single one had a black face.  So the white face gives it away. Now if we didn’t have the Ord Watches above, maybe there could be some debate, but since we got them gems up there, in my mind there ain’t a question. Word.

Water.

I’m Not a Star

I don’t want nobody soundin’ like me, on no blog. That’s my word. ‘Cause I’ma approach a fool, fa’real. So now that we got that outta the way, we can begin.

The mystery surroundin’ the unexpected entry of another player in the clique has deepened. Yesterday I thought I had’a handle on the whole BuAero 88-W-800 thing. But nah, Son, nah. Now I knows different. Seem like e’ry time I think I’m straight on something, some other craze pops up like- Boom! Shit’s bonkers.

Aight, so. The last time we got to talkin’ ’bout the Elgin BuAero 88-W-800, and the Waltham of the same model. We realized Bulova never copped a contract on them shits, and that this new crew, The Hamilton Watch Company made one – or two… So thems the joints we’s gonna go over today. Best to pay attention now.

Hamilton BuAero 88-W-800, US Navy, Pt. No. 39013, Grade 2987, 18 Jewel

Size 6/0, Star Watch Case Company

Hamilton BuAero 88-W-800, US Navy, Pt. No. 39012, Grade 2987, 18 Jewel

Size 6/0, Keystone Case Company (Caseback only)

Hamilton Grade 2987, Size 6/0, 18 Jewel Movement

So there you go. First, lemme explain somethin’ about the differences in the two watches. At first glance, you gonna say that they’s pretty much the same joints. But yo, check the manufacturers part numbers. 39103 and 39102. So yeah, they’re basically the exact same watch except the cases are made by different manufacturers. Star Watch Co. up top, and Keystone Case Co. below. Now lets get back to the bible – Spec 94-27834-B. Boom.

Remember that? That’s right. That’s the Hamilton BuAero FSSC 88-W-800, right there in the specs. Not the Elgin, not the Waltham, but the Hamilton. Hmm. You got the exact same changes as in the other two – luminous hands, luminous five minute dots, and all the rest. But here’s where it gets fuzzy. These two Hamiltons (both part numbers) were issued to the US Navy Bureau of Aeronautics. But they were also issued to – get this – The US Marine Corps. Oh shit, Son. We gettin’ into serious looking-glass territory. Check it out. As far as I can tell, there were 4 Hamilton watches issued under the umbrella of what I’ma call the ’88-W-800′. We have the two that we’ve got right up there. But each of those were both issued to the US Navy and the USMC. So there’s 4. Now, we have at least 2 other part numbers that were issued with caseback markings ’88-W-800′. These markings could be proceeded by either a ‘R’, or ‘FSSC’. So first lemme show you what the USMC joint should look like. And do remember, as always, if I’m just straight off base, somebody hit me up n’ let me know the deal. Word.

Hamilton BuAero 88-W-800, USMC, Pt. No. 39102, Grade 2987, 18 Jewels

Size 6/0, Keystone Case Company

Dayum. So boom, just like that we gots a white dial babe in the building. As of now, I ain’t seen shit about these in any specs, but I’ma see if I can dig something up soon’nuff. They basically adhere to the same specs as the Navy ones, with the exception of the luminous dots at the five minute markers. The hands and hour numerals are radioactive lume. One thing here that seems a bit sketch is the fact that we’ve got an outright branding on this face here. That’s the first branding on a dial we’re seeing that ain’t a subdued black on black script. Now I remember seeing a letter somewhere.. lemme see what I gots..

Word, here we go. So if we’re to take the following letter as the law of the land in regard to these watches (as these shits still fall under spec 94-27834-B), we can assume that this is not an original dial. The original shouldn’t have been marked Hamilton, but left blank, yo. These here letters are in regard to Walthams, but the same rules should apply across the board.

You ever been pimp-slapped by an Air Corps Colonel? Nah, me neither. But yo, Mr. Boucher sure has. Big ups to hq_sandman_ute for these treasure troves. Buck Buck! Now, unless Hamilton and the USMC are operatin’ on another set’a rules, I’m thinkin’ this is a redial. But yo, I can’t be sure this ain’t the OG jump and I’ma knucklehead. That could just as easily be the case. Now when I say redial, I don’t mean that it ain’t legit, or not from the same time period. What I mean is that the dial you’re seeing isn’t the one originally issued with the watch by the military. From what I been able to gather, companies like Hamilton here were mad concerned that if the war ended, they’d get caught holdin’ the bag with dumb amounts of watches with no brandin’ on ‘em. So if and when they ever needed to switch it up an’ sell these to civilians, they covered their asses by making the same dials, only with their marks on ‘em. So when I say redial, I just mean that after the war, this piece right here could’a been fitted with a new, civilian dial. But again, I could be off, so don’t quote me, Son.

Those of y’all really, really on your J.O. would have noticed that the part number of the USMC joint up there is the same as one of the BuAero ones right above it – 39102. Remember, I said that these were issued to both the USMC and the US Navy. So it stands to reason that there’d be a 39103 one, too. As far as I can tell, there is, but I ain’t been able to find’a picture of one anywhere. Nowhere. So I’ma have to issue an apology to y’all, again. I’ll be sure to post ‘em at a later date as soon as one pops up on my radar.

Aight so now that we covered those two part numbers pretty well, I’ma introduce the next 88-W-800s.

Hamilton BuAero 88-W-800, US Navy, Pt. No. 39018, Grade 987S, 17 Jewel

Size 6/0, Keystone Case Company

Nerds! Pardon these straight busted pictures. This was the only set’a photos a nerd could find that were totally correct for the US Navy one, so I had to use ‘em. Below are some better pictures, but they’re of this homies counterpart, the USMC 39108.

Hamilton BuAero 88-W-800, USMC, Pt. No. 39018, Grade 987S, 17 Jewel

Size 6/0, Keystone Case Company

Hamilton Grade 987S, Size 6/0, 17 Jewel Movement

Trap goin’ ham, right herr. We gwan start off with a quick comparison of this part number and the two we’ve already seen. Like the ones before, they made one for the USMC and one for the US Navy.

Couple’a quick points:

1. R88-W-800? Aw, snap, God. What happened to FSSC? Honestly, B, I have no idea. This is probably gonna turn into the theme here – me not havin’ an answer for y’all. But yo, I really don’t know what the “R” means. We gonna have to find out. I’ll be reportin’ back as soon as I gots any ideas.

2. Also, peep the extra little caseback marking goin’ on here: K-H-3. I’m pretty sure that means “Keystone- Hamilton-3″. Now I’ve got absolutely no idea what the “3″ is about. I’ma have’ta look into that one. But check it out, go back up to part numbers 39102 and 39103. They’re marked with the extra “H-3″, but no “K”. And since one of them is a Keystone case and one’s a Star, that makes sense that they don’t have a letter before the “H-3″. If they did, and our theory stands, they’d have to have an “S” and a “K”. But I ain’t seen that nowhere. Seriously though, my apologies about the lack of info goin’ on here. Shit’s burnt.

3. Ready for another mystery? Aight, me neither, but we gots another one right here on the side of the case, between the lugs. We have another “H” to deal with, B. Now this “H” is most likely another notation for Hamilton, but other joints in the 88-W-800 series have different ones too. You should see either an “S” or  a “W” mark between the lugs of different part numbers.. And yo, before you bug out an’ tell me I should’a added this when we was on the 39102 and 03, I know. I’ma try to cover ey’thang as it should be, but yo, it ain’t easy, homie.

Word up, get evaporated.

Hamilton BuAero 88-W-800, US Navy, Pt. No. 39013, 

 Star Watch Case Company (Case Only) – ‘S’ Between 5 and 7 Lug

Y’all are gonna have to bear with me right now, ’cause I’ma ’bout to flip on a nerd. Lemme explain somethin’ to y’all. One’a the reasons why this here blog be in existence is ’cause I just spent like an hour searchin’ for a picture of the “W” that should be between the 5 and 7 lug on part number 39102 with no luck. Now, this seems to be a runnin’ gag up here. Ain’t nobody out there straight documentin’ these shits. I mean, yeah, you got dumb amounts of data out there – which, by the way, I’m yoinkin’ all my info from – but yo, you got no real breakdowns of each joint. And when I say that I mean, with photos. Its like a goddamn jigsaw puzzle out there in the streets. And yo, no disrespect to the homies out there puttin’ in work. Y’all know who you are. But ey’body else can get it. That’s my word.

Aight so. Obviously we got no pictures of the “W”, but we gonna imagine what it’d look like. We do have the “S”, though. So we know “S” is for the Star Watch Case Co. Boom. Now, I just went off on a tangent, but I’ma get right back to it now. We still on the differences between the 39102/39103 and the 39108.

4. The movement. Check it. In the 39102/03 we got the grade 2987, 18 Jewel jump. In the 39108 we gots the 987S, 17 Jewel. Now, couple’a things. First, apparently the 2987 is one of the highest quality military issued movements manufactured during the whole war. The 2987 was a strictly military issue piece, unlike others (like the 987S) that were also issued in civilian watches. And there was such limited production on these 2987(s) that they’re one’a the most highly sought-after movements from the period. We gonna get into that in more detail, but yo, there were only ’bout 15,000 a’them issued. ‘Bout 2000 to the USMC and 13,000 to the US Navy. So yo, if you got one’a these shits, hold onto it, B. The technical differences between the two is that there was a second sweep bridge added to the 987S  to create the 2987. The 987S lacks the bridge, instead it’s usin’ a tension spring which ain’t as secure. That’s also where we get the additional jewel to make the 2987 an 18 jewel. Oof. Peep the difference below.

Hamilton Grade 987S, Size 6/0, 17 Jewel Movement

sweep second tension spring highlighted in red

Hamilton Grade 2987, Size 6/0, 18 Jewel Movement

sweep second bridge highlighted in red

Your boy 987s is rockin’ the .22, Son. While your man 2987 over there is sittin’ pretty with the .12 gauge Mossberg Pump, nahmean? As far as my under-educated-ass can tell, the added bridge provides that much needed support for the wheel that controls the second hand. There it is. A’course there’s probably fifty more differences, but yo, that’s what it is. For now.

Ok so yo, I’m sure you’re all thinkin’ we done with the 88-W-800. And I tell you, I wish we were, God. I wish we were. But that just ain’t the case. We gots one more to go. So without gettin’ all jumpy, here she is.

Hamilton BuAero Sub-Second 88-W-800, US Navy, Pt. No. 27023, Grade 987A, 17 Jewel, Size 6/0, Keystone Case Company

I’m stunned, yo. I’m lookin’ at our first sub-second hand son’a'bitch. Fa’real yo, this is like the ultimate mashup right here. Re-mix! This shit look like that kid in high school who wadn’t sure if he were a jock or’a thug. Straight bi-polar, Son. Lookin’  mad schizo. See if you can pick ‘em out.

We gots:

1. Dial looks just like the USMC one, except black. And it has a sub-second hand, which means the movement don’t “hack”. So it may be that this wasn’t a navigation watch?

2. We got the same “K-H-3″ markings, the same “H” between the lugs and the same “R” in front of “88-W-800″ as the 39108. So lets assume that’s the exact same Keystone case.

3. And last but not least, we got another version of the 2987. This time it’s the 987A. This one’s obviously a sub-second, non-hack movement. You can tell ’cause it don’t have either the sweep second tension spring (987s) or the sweep second bridge (2987). Which also makes it a 17 jewel, since the 18th was only added to the 2987 on the sweep bridge.

This one we gwan look into more, but for now we gone call it. Word.

Big ups to all the real heads out there doin’ their thing, survivin’ y’all. Shit got real deep in the last couple hours, but we still here, God.

Aight, B, Water.

Don’t Wild Out

Real talk? I been about eyeballs deep in some craze today, I ain’t gonna lie to you. I honestly couldn’t tell y’all where I been on this internet thing, but I done gone plumb crazy. You start lookin’ into somethin’ and it’s like – Boom! – you fell down a rabbit hole. Word. But since I got about an hour before my eyes start bleedin’, Son, bad, Son, we gonna jump right back up in it. The hood’s starving out here. Gotta feed the streets.

So yo, today we gonna take a short break from the 3 ladies we been dealin’ with. I know, I know, don’t wild out. We gonna talk a little about something that probably not all y’all nerds noticed. I ain’t sayin’ y’all ain’t payin’ attention, but yo, you probably ain’t. If you are, word. But if not, check it out. Yesterday I got mad suped ’cause I was finally able to copp the spec sheet 94-27834-B. We been up n’ down n’ over why that shit’s important, but we gotta get back to it for a minute, so pay attention. If you hit up the last couple pages of that document, you’ll see that there are spec amendments for the (USN) Bureau of Aeronautics, type A-11, also known as the BuAero 88-W-800. Not to be confused with the US Army, type A-11. Remember, the US Army included the AF back then. Now, if you recall, way back when, I said that there were 2, sometimes 3 different A-11s issued by each manufacturer. Well, here’s the first other version we gonna deal with. I’ma post the amended specs again here for all you lazy-ass fools. But from now on, we gonna refer to this watch as the BuAero 88-W-800.

Easy. Now we know the specs for the BuAero 88-W-800 (Navy A-11). I’m hopin’ you’re stayin’ with me here and you realize that the three we been talking about before were US Army Air Force issue. We good? Word. So these Navy ones probably saw mad air time in the Pacific, where some of the gnarliest action took place. Very possibly, the kid rocking one’a these joints was piloting one of these bad ladies:

Grumman F6F Hellcat

The kids don’t play. And yo, these birds right here were a huge reason we were able to turn the tide in the Pacific. Check the stats on these your boys. Homies dropped 5,163 enemy aircraft while only losing 270 Hellcats. That’s bananas. But yo, this ain’t a plane blog. Here we go.

Elgin BuAero 88-W-800, US Navy, Pt. No. 2103, Grade 539, 16 jewels

Waltham BuAero 88-W-800, US Navy, Pt. No. 10616, 6/0 ’42, 16 jewels

Aight, so first off let me apologize to y’all nerds about the photos of these gems. Seeing as there weren’t as many of these issued, it ain’t easy to locate photographic evidence of all them shits. Problem really is that fools don’t post photos of both the front and back, ya dig? Now what good does that do us? Gots to show the kids what both sides is like. Anyhow, my apologies. So, a couple’a things you’ll notice straight off the bat. Or you should by now, nerds. 

1. We’ve got little dots of luminous material at all the 5 minute markers. And we gots two right on top of each other above the 12. As y’all can tell from the specs, these dots were made from radioactive material that allowed them to be seen in the dark. Now, I can’t find anything ’bout why Navy pilots needed’a see in the dark, and AF pilots didn’t, but yo, I’ll keep my ears to the streets on that one.

2. And peep the hour and minute hands. they been switched up on us. Now we’ve got what’re called ‘cathedral hands’. As you can see, they be looking like some little tiny-ass steeples. And they’s got the same radioactive material up in ‘em too. Looks like the second hand’s supposed to have the ends of ‘em dipped in that shit, too. The tips all glowin’.

3. Obviously, we got the different caseback markings: FSSC 88-W-800, the Mfg. part no., and the Mfg. Co. name. So boom. There is some debate around the acronym FSSC. I’ve seen it said that it stands for Fleet Surveillance Support Command, but I’ve also seen Fleet Supply Support Center. Now, I ain’t a expert on nertin’ havin’ to do with this, but here’s what I found out. Check it. Fleet Surveillance Support Command. Now if you ask me, that ain’t right. ‘Cause yo, the first thing you’ll notice is that it didn’t jump off till 1987. So I think that’s out. But, I can’t find anything about the ‘Fleet Supply Support Center’. Nerthin’. So this is gonna have to stay mysterious until somebody can show me some evidence, yo. Also- and I’ll get more into this at a latter date – these shits were marked with FSSC 88-W-800, but, there are some that I’ve seen marked with R88-W-800, Aero 88-W-800. I’m gonna do some more diggin’ on that one, I think we may need an entire post for that one.

Now, a’couple’a these spec amendments are pretty minor – just sitin’ diferences in the oil lubricant used when servicing the watch n’ shit like that, so we gonna bypass them for now.

But I do wanna mention point 8. ‘Source of Material – All material used, with the probable exception of the jewel, shall be Amerian-mined and produced’. So for some reason, the Navy was more patriotic n’ shit.

Quick note about the movements. The Elgin is still rocking the Grade 539, 8/0, 16 jewel. But, pictured above is the new Waltham 6/0 ’42 in place of the 10AKCSH. Still has 16 jewels, still size 6/0. I gotta look into the difference, but I don’t think its too considerable.

Boom. So now we know what’s up with the BuAero 88-W-800. But for those of you actually followin’, you may be all – what the deal with the Bulova? Well, it seems that Bulova took a pass on making the Navy pieces, for whatever reason. I seen some letters from within the US AAF, and one to Bulova suggestin’ that they weren’t doin’ so hot in deliverin’ their AF ones, so maybe they got cut off. Could be.

Aight so, that’s gonna wrap up the first post about the BuAero 88-W-800, Aka the US Navy A-11. Now, we ain’t done with this subject, by no means. We still got dumb amounts of info to dig into about these ones, but before we go any further, I think we need to be talkin’ about something I find pretty shady. And that is, that The Hamilton Watch Company made a BuAero 88-W-800. They didn’t make an A-11, but they made one of these? We gonna hav’ta look into that shiesty-ness.

Water.

Da Movement

What it do, Gods and Godettes? I know you all just out there eagerly awaitin’ the next installment of nerdology. Well, here you go. I’ma give  you the whole thing, 1000 grams. Don’t say I never gave ya nothin’. Word.

This evening’s topic of choice is gonna be Movements. Up ’till now we basically been dealin’ the the aesthetics of these here babes. I mean, don’t get me wrong, that’s what we all here for, but now we gwan get into the brains behind the beauty. B’lee me, you don’t want to get caught out there with some broad with nothin’ but air between her ears, for real. That’s straight embarrassing shit. Oh and yo, this is one of them things I pretty much don’t know shit about, so be patient with a nerd. I can tell you which one should be where, just don’t ask me how they work. Aight? So anyway, without further ado, here we go.

Elgin 539 16 Jewel Movement

So Check it. The Elgin’s rockin’ a grade 539, 16 Jewel Movement. Originally the Elgin A-11s were decked out with 15 Jewel shits, but they had to step it up a notch to keep up with the new specs coming from them boys making the rules back at the Army. Remember, we still talking about the 94-28734-B(s) here, not any other specs, prior or afterwards.  So yeah, 16 Jewels. Shinnin’. The one extra jewel was for the second hand, which needed to be able to ‘hack’. That’s what made this a dope navigation watch. You can pull out the crown on the side of the case and the ‘sweep’ second hand stops moving. Pop it back in and it starts up again. Just like that you and your bomber boys could synchronise watches, no problem. If you ain’t tryin’a get knocked by them Luftwaffe skeeze-ohs, you can’t be flyin’ off course n’ shit. Fuck around n’ end up over Hamburg when you’s supposed’ta be fire bombin’ Dresden. Burnt. So anyway, I wanted to post a picture that had both the types you could see – a gold flashed one, and a silver joint, either is correct. Also peep the two black wheels. You might see those in grey, but if you do, be easy. Them shits rust out, which is why they were replaced with the black oxide wheels. Apparently the gold gilted movement is newer as well, for the same reason, the silver may not hold up as well. But if gold ain’t you stee, and it ain’t mine, I say it’s aight to copp the silver.

The Legendary Men of the 20th. Fighter Group

them boys gettin’ ready to make it rain

Waltham 6/0-B 16 Jewel Movement

For a nerd like me, this is where it gets crazy. This one here’s called the 6/0-B. The 6/0 be referring to the size of the movement. We gwan get into some real technical shit here. Boom.

This document right here? Yeah, we gonna be seeing a lot of this one. You can check the entire piece here, but if you like me, you’ll wanna take this one slow.

TM 9-1575, TO 05-35A-22

War Department Technical Manual

Like I said, we gonna be taking this one slow. We’s gonna start here on pages 2 and 3.

Aight so, I had to put in an email to one’a my homies. I been searchin’ high and low for the complete specs for 94-27834-B with no luck. Alls I got is some seriously skimp excerpts. But yo, the homie’ll be hittin’ me back soon and if anybody has ‘em, he does. For real. But until then we’s gonna have to make do with what we got.

So. We were talking about the 6/0 size Waltham movement. As you can see, its gets mad crazy with the fractions n’ shit, but I’m gonna keep it real simple. I look at the size – 6/0 – and the corresponding size in Millimeters. I would say peep the inches measurement for all you Yanks out there, but yo, I can’t mess with 5/30ths n’ shit. So keep it to the size and the MM measurement. And oh, before we go any further, the Elgin 539 is a size 8/0. It doesn’t say it, but it is. I have no idea why some fools marked the size on the movement and others didn’t. Whatever.

Ayo, big news nerds, I finally copped a copy’a the specs we been after. Peep game: 94-27834-B. I’ma keep a link for this up in the pages so you can easily access all the grimy details whenever you need.

Oh yeah, so about the sizes. Check out Section E-2. Nothing bigger than a 4/0 and a minimum of 15 jewels. So both the Elgin and the Waltham fit. Now we onto the next one.

Bulova 10AK/CSH 16 Jewel Movement

This beauty is called the 10AK/CSH. CSH stands for Center Sweep Hack. Its a bit funky to read since they buried all the markings under the center second wheel. Luckily I have a picture with those pieces removed, so you can peep the markings, here. There’s an explanation for the beat placement, too, tho. This here’s an updated version of the 10AK (non-hack) movement, pictured below.

Bulova 10AK Non-Hack 15 Jewel Movement

See how there ain’t no center second wheel or second sweep bridge? This seem to be where the 16th jewel comes into play. There’s a 16th jewel added to the 15 Jewel 10AK along with the addition of the center sweep wheel and second sweep bridge that makes it the 16 jewel 10AK/CSH. And do remember, having an extra jewel allowed that shit to ‘hack’. Aight, bet. If you ask me, they didn’t have nowhere else to put them markings, since this wasn’t an original movement, just one that was updated with an additional jewel. And for some reason when people size this watch, they call it a 10.5 ligne. Which is bugged out, but if we check out our chart, that makes it an 8/0. Same as the Elgin.

Word. So that’s it for the 3 movements. I’ma get up otta here.

Water.